Host Dave Orr visits this episode with Bourgault Industries agronomic lead Curtis De Gooijer to discuss test plots, trends and data collection. Listen in as he shares how he is looking forward to continued innovations in autonomy, robust sensors and data management.
Host Dave Orr visits this episode with Bourgault Industries agronomic lead Curtis De Gooijer to discuss test plots, trends and data collection. Listen in as he shares how he is looking forward to continued innovations in autonomy, robust sensors and data management.
Hello, and welcome to another edition of top on talks agriculture. My name is Dave O and I'm the regional sales manager in Canada. And today I'm excited to be joined by Curtis de Goyer. Curtis is an agronomist by trade and works at forgo industries as an agronomy team leader. Welcome to Topcon. Talk to Curtis and thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thanks Dave. Yeah know, I'm yeah. Excited to be here and see where the conversation goes, I guess today and see what we, uh, see what really comes out. So it'll be good. I'm excited to,
Speaker 1:So, Curtis, uh, as I mentioned, you, uh, you currently are the agronomy team leader for Borgo industries. Uh, maybe if you just want to tell our listeners what exactly, uh, your background is kind of, uh, how you got to where you are today.
Speaker 2:Sure. I, uh, guess, you know, start off, uh, little farm here in, uh, Saskatchewan Canada, uh, grew up with about 1100 acres or so and mixed cattle, cattle and grain headed off to university of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon, uh, worked for a couple years at car gal as an agronomist there. So scouting acres for guys. And so getting a lot of, uh, yeah, a little bit of experience there, I would, I would say, and, you know, seeing a lot of different crops and then this opportunity came up in St. Bruce Saskatchewan, uh, at Borgo and, uh, kind of jumped on it. There is, uh, there's some talk about being able to travel around and, and do my own research and, and play with the brand new equipment. So I thought that sounded pretty, uh, pretty sweet to me. So I kind of jumped on that opportunity. And so I've been up here since, uh, 20, 20 14, uh, I've been at, at, at BOGO industries. So coming up to eight years now.
Speaker 1:Nice. And now is, is St. Brew closer to home for you or, or further away,
Speaker 2:Uh, St. Brew, uh, to little town of Kellerher, uh, is about oh two and a half hours, 250 kilometers away there to the south. So.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And so what exactly is your role at BOGO now?
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah, it's a good question. I get that one, uh, a few times what's an agronomist doing at equipment manufacturing and, uh, you know, basically what it comes down to is, you know, we build equipment here to put, put seed and fertilizer in the ground. Uh, we better know how that interaction works. And so what my role is, uh, is to kind of take in kind of combined actually that whole agronomy world with, uh, with the equipment manufacturing world kind of be that bit of a bridge, right. What's happening in both of those, uh, areas. Uh, and then being able to let's say, bring in information from agronomy from the agronomic world to say, Hey, you know what, we need equipment to do this. And then, you know, talk with our engineers kind of, I guess, bring'em up to speed on what's happening in the industry. Um, and then the other part of it too, is, uh, these trials. Uh, we do a lot of, uh, equipment trials where we're playing with fertilizer and seed placement and different rates, uh, using different types of equipment. Uh, so that kind of helps us, you know, in the design of different equipment, uh, coming down the line, whether it's a whole new strategy or a whole new way of doing something or just proving some things out. Uh, and then once we have these results, actually the extension work going and giving presentations, uh, taking questions from, you know, producers, our customers are not our customers. You know, we've got a lot of research here that guys are finding. Interesting. Um, and then just, again, just being that liaison between the two, the two industries, the agronomic world and the manufacturing world
Speaker 1:Now is, is that something that's common that maybe, um, end users or producers don't recognize ABO equipment manufacturing is that it's common to have an agronomist on staff that's helping drive research and, and helping understand how their own equipment can be better in the application that they're working in.
Speaker 2:Right. Um, I would say that there's getting to be more and more kind of agronomists on staff at, uh, at different different manufacturer. I'm thinking of some of our, you know, close competitors. They've had agronomists on staff, some of'em were actually even created by agronomists. Um, so yeah, you know, there is that link, but I would say what kind of sets, uh, Borgo apart is we've got, we've got a 2300 acre farm here and we're running it like a commercial farm. So we're, we're understanding some of just the, you know, logistics and, and different things that guys would be going through. Uh, and then we take a lot of, or some of that land and we actually divvied up into these smaller trials and, and do you know, hundreds of these larger scale field replicated trials? So I would say that no other manufacturer is doing quite to the extent, uh, you know, in our, in our, I guess, uh, specific industry, you know, on the seating side of it. Um, but I would say that most do have some kind of agronomic, uh, advisor on, on, on their team somewhere.
Speaker 1:Right. And, and so maybe just for the listeners, um, you can kind of give us a quick overview of, of what BOGO industry actually, uh, what, what that specific industry is. It's more of a broad acre seeding than maybe a precision seating where, um, they are working with widths of, you know, 65 or, or bigger feet and widths at the time of, of planting and fertilizing in, in single passes. Correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So our kind of bread and butter is, uh, you know, it kind of started off, you know, in 1974, the very first, uh, cultivator was kind of introduced and, uh, you know, that that's where Borgo originated from, was cultivating working up the soil. And, you know, since then moved more into our bread and butter being the, the seeding side of it, we still make cultivators, we make heroes, but our drills are really what, uh, really set us apart, uh, a no-till drill. So we putting down seed and fertilizer in a, in a single pass without having to work up the soil ahead of time. Uh, you know, our most common size of drill that we sell right now is 76 feet wide. And our most common tank that we sell, uh, that gets coupled with that drill is, uh, 950 bushel. Now we make up to a hundred foot drills and we also make up to 1300 bushel carts. And actually those 1300 bushel carts are getting to be more and more popular. Uh, so definitely broader acres, um, is, is what our main target has been or has been in the past. Uh, but we do have smaller drills. We're coming online with now two 30 and 40 foots with onboard tanks on there. And, and, and we just moved into the simulation world now, uh, you know, where we have simulators on board, we can, we can simulate corn, plant corn and Ize at the same time. So that's gonna be really interesting moving forward. That's gonna be able to open up a couple more, uh, industries or, or areas I would say geographically speaking, um, you know, into the future here. So that's pretty exciting, but, but you're right, David, we're larger equipment. We're not gonna<laugh>, we're not going downtown, uh, you know, in Toronto or, or anywhere like that. Right. We're, we're, we're pretty big equipment. So
Speaker 1:We're not talking 12 year old box planters right now. We're talking a lot of acres in, in single days in, in multiple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We're hundreds of acres a day is, you know, the guy's goals. Right. And, and a lot of, lot of the farms now are, are multiple, multiple units in the field, uh, of this size. So just to get a, give a bit of a indication of the sizes of farms that we're, that we're kind of working with, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, and I've been lucky enough to, you know, sit in on some of your extension work. I've been at different events, uh, whether it's a trade show or whether it's a, you know, a show that forgo has put on themselves, um, at their research farm or, or what would it be. And I understand the value added that a, you know, a position such as yourself or your counterpart, Jeff bring to those conversations, but what's been the feedback from maybe end users about an agronomist on staff. That's actually doing the work playing in the same soil that they're playing in and being able to actually speak to what this machine can do for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, actually the other, the other day, literally a couple days ago, got a call from a guy I'd never met him before. And he, uh, he was, you know, he had a couple questions. We post all of our results online. And so he just wanted to follow up with a few questions. And he said, you know, it's, it's pretty sweet. Like I go online, I had these specific questions and all of a sudden, you know, he found himself on our website and there's, there's the questions he was asking and we've got the trials for it. Right. So, um, exactly to your point, guys are, are, are really liking that ability to, to get that information that really pertains to their, to their farm. And, uh, and, and honestly that's where these trials and, you know, a lot of the work that we do and questions that we ask ourselves are, are stemming from, is, you know, from talking with producers. Right. And, and what's happening out there, then we put it into the trials. Right. So, uh, you know, overall, I, I, I think it's been, I think it's been good, you know, of course you'll have, you'll have some other guys out there, you know, ah, you're doing the trial. So, you know, how much can we really believe about, you know, what you're doing, right. If you're trying to sell us something and, you know, okay. I, I got a guess I can respect that, uh, to a certain degree, but, you know, we're definitely doesn't help us to, to, to not find the true answers, the quickest, right. So, uh, overall it's been, it's been really, I think it's been really good. So,
Speaker 1:And I, and I, I would have to imagine, uh, being, working in the sales industry, myself, that the salesman for, for BOGO and probably the dealership salesman really enjoy being able to talk to an end user. And when they want to know more information, they have a resource such as yourself where it's a, where you've used the same tools that they've used and, and been able to get the results that they desire. So<laugh>, as a, as a sales staff, I betcha, they certainly appreciate having a, a resident knowledge such as a, an agronomist or agronomy team on their side. For sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I I'd like to think so, but you never know these, you know, these salesmen out there. Hey, all of a sudden if I tell the, the customer something, maybe they don't want to hear, I, I don't know if they really appreciate us at that point, but<laugh>, I'd like to believe it's for the, for the, the, the good of, for the customer and the company. So,
Speaker 1:Yeah. And one thing that, uh, you know, you kind of hit on here today that I guess I haven't really put together as, as you guys, aren't just going out and testing, you know, what the best formula of rate to fertilizer or, or spacing or any of that is, um, you know, between seeds in the same row, but you guys are also doing testing on your own equipment to see if, you know, maybe 10 inch spacing is better compared to 12 inch facing. If that's a design that you guys should go with or vice versa, or maybe the air delivery system to the openers of the, of the fertilizer or velocity of air and stuff like that. So it sounds like you're doing a lot more than just, you know, what, what, what probably a lot of people stereotypically would say an agronomist is doing when it comes to looking at test plots, you're, you're actually testing the machine itself too, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. With, you know, we've got a, you know, we've got a new drill every other, every couple years, and we're always testing out, you know, the, the, the latest and greatest coming down the pipeline, you know, uh, yeah. Whether it be, yeah, like you said, mechanical or, or on the tech side of it, um, which can make for some, you know, some frustrating times, but, you know, it's better that we kind of go through this first and then, you know, we can test it out. And before it gets into the hands of the producers who, you know, when it's time to go, they gotta go, they can't be monkeying around. So for sure, we're, we're trying to do as much of that as we can, and then provide that feedback, uh, back to the engineers here. Yep.
Speaker 1:And there must, there must be some validation between what maybe the salesman are hearing from the field about what they, what end users would like in the future and kind of what engineering things they can do and whether or not it's a viable thing, you know, for the marketplace probably is, is a probably combination between a lot of different sources inside the walls of, of any OEM, not just, just specifically BOGO.
Speaker 2:Well, for sure. There's a lot of, there's a lot of good ideas. There's a lot of ideas I can float it across. Right. And, you know, you gotta kind of pick through some of them, uh, some of'em might seem like a real good idea. And, uh, you know, when it gets put into practice, it's all of a sudden, eh, maybe that didn't work out way, a guy thought it would. And so, yeah, you gotta pick through it and, and, uh, yeah, but OB obviously come from the field. Right.<laugh> the best ideas are the ones that come from the field and they're the ones that apply the best too. Right. So,
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. Um, today we're joined on talk Pokemon talks, agriculture by Curtis de Goyer from, uh, BOGO industries, agronomy team leader. Um, thanks for filling us in, on kind of what you do at forgo and what BOGO does for, uh, or within the industry. Um, but just a couple of questions, uh, since we got you on the line here, maybe turning towards agronomy as a whole, um, you said that you've been working at BOGO since 2014. So in those seven years or eight years, I guess it is. Um, and then even your time at cardio after university, what are some of the trends you've seen develop or, or change, um, in your industry specifically that that kind of have revolutionized farming specific to agronomy?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a pretty, uh, yeah, that's a pretty big question. Um, yeah.
Speaker 1:Putting you on the hot seat today, Curtis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You know, the one thing that comes to mind right away, right, is just, uh, just on the technology side and, you know, tracking, tracking what, what you're doing, uh, within all, all aspects of, of the, you know, of the farm, right. So, you know, seeding to spraying to harvest, um, that, that, that information transfer, uh, to me, like when I was at Cargill there, right. It was, you know, we, we were sort of playing around with some VR stuff and, and honestly<laugh>, while that program's now has since shut down so I can kind of speak blatantly, but like, it's, it was, it was very well here. You guys go, uh, go out there and see if you can sell this VR stuff. Right. And, and, and nowadays, I mean, there's some companies out there right now that it's, so it's, it's, it's very detailed, very specific, uh, on the fields and, and, and very, very much, um, represents the field digitally. Um, so there's, you know, that part of it, uh, but then also, you know, what, what gets applied, uh, what gets sprayed, uh, what gets harvested and now turning those zones, uh, of the field, let's say, uh, looking at, you know, how much is going in, how much is going out per zone and, and how do you track that? And this whole, like, you know, agronomy, well, precision agronomist seems to be more of a, a common, you know, either position I see posted, um, or just, you know, in general, in the job descriptions, you know, you're gonna have to be dealing with a lot of, you know, a lot of this data and how do you, how do you manage it? Right. Yeah. Um, so I, I would say that's probably one of the biggest things that has evolved here as of, you know, as of late, it's always been there, but it's really seems to be a big push in that arena right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And, and I think to add to that, you know, I know you and I have talked in the past about importing and exporting, you know, data to, and from the consoles that BOGO uses our, the talk on X 35, um, or other monitors. Right. And I think it's truly become big, big part in, uh, an agronomist daily life is importing and exporting data through all the different colors of monitors out there. Um, then I know some agronomists have adapted that and some agronomists aren't so excited about that, but it's certainly here and it's not going away anytime soon.
Speaker 2:No, that's, that's a lot of the questions I'm getting right now, he, in the winter months here, right. Is, you know, how do we do this? How do we upload boundaries? How do we, uh, export this up to this platform? And, you know, that's, that's, uh, a very common, common conversation we're having.
Speaker 1:And, and for every color of every color of monitor out there, there's also a data platform that's being used, that one farmer has or whatever. Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly. There's a lot, there's a lot out there. So how do they jive? Right. You know, it's, it's, how do we get the clouds to talk to the clouds? And, uh,<laugh> it heads up in the clouds, I guess, and sometimes some of these conversations. So,
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think something that, you know, that I have seen in my time in the industry is that you go to, uh, maybe an agronomy seminar or something along those lines. Um, and the average age of agronomists seem to be kind of a little bit lower, um, that are more eager to get out there and, and get that, uh, information from companies such as talk on or, or anybody like that. Right. And, um, you definitely see that there is some wisdom in the room, but it, it does seem to be more of a, a younger position right now in the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know. Uh, you might have got some guys fired up there who are listening to this right now, but, uh, yeah. Guys, some trails out there. I mean, yeah. It's, uh, it's something where yeah. You know, we're kind of born into it now in, into the technology of, of everything right. Of everyday life and, and, and it's no different on the farm
Speaker 1:And that's just, it it's, it's here and it's not going anywhere. So, um, what I guess to, to build on that is, do you see any disruptions coming in the agronomy side of, of the farm that are going to be, you know, kind of continue to revolutionize this we're in 10 years when the next generation is sitting here doing a podcast, they're talking about what they've dealt with over the last 10 years? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there's a few, there's definitely a few things, um, out there. Um, there's some things I'd like to, you know, to see some more pushing on, um, you know, obviously the whole automation that, I mean, that's a big one, um, you know, is, you know, getting, uh, in the field, uh, you send a piece of equipment out and it does the work with nobody in it. Right. There's, there's that aspect of it for sure. And there's been a couple come get released on, on that side. So I think you, you know, it's, you know, it might just be more of a tech thing, but of course you ought to, you know, how does that, how does that automatically adjust to the agronomics that's going on that data too, right. How deep is the moisture? Um, you know, how, how do we, how do we get to that point? And, and, and that's where, you know, kind of the other thing is I'd like to see expanded on here is, uh, is sensors in general, right? And, and everybody quite cringes, you know, everyone hears about you too many sensors and, you know, one goes wrong. Um, but what I've been finding is, you know, when they, when they work and they're robust, uh, it's, it's pretty cool to see that, uh, that information come in. Um, so an example of that, you know, would be, uh, you know, moisture meter, uh, real time, you know, how, how do we set our depth, uh, of the drill, let's say, right as you're going through the field. Um, so I think that might be a potential thing where, you know, gone are the days of,<laugh> not, not necessarily going out and checking, but you know, you have this, this real time map showing up of where the moistures is on your, in your field right down to the, you know, right. You know, within an inch or a half, an inch or quarter of an inch. Um, so I think that, uh, I, I mean, maybe that's what I kind of hope, or I don't know if I hope, I think that could be beneficial to, you know, ensuring that every crop gets up and get going. Right. So that, that's obviously important. And, you know, if technology can do it better than humans, then we're winning and in the past that's, I mean, look at GPS. Right, right. They always, you know, you got the guy that says he can drive straight. Well, you're not gonna drive straight than GPS. Right. Um, so I, I think that the, you know, the cen some of that sensor technology, uh, it's come a long ways, but there's some, there's some more stuff we can still do with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's such a common thing is that for 10 years at trade shows, guys would say that they didn't need steering. And now you don't even hear that comment anymore. Cuz almost everything has steering on it. Right. And yeah, we're kind of going through that phase right now with, with data management. Um, guys are still not a hundred percent convinced about even variable rating or, you know, collecting data. A lot of guys do variable rating, but they don't collect it properly at harvest. And it just makes it that much more challenging for an agronomist to do proper work. Right. But every year, year over year you get less and less in that and more adaptation of proper yield data collecting or variable rate executions on both the Cedar and the sprayer, um, that, you know, it's soon we're gonna be talking about whether it's autonomy or, or whatever it is and, and how that properly fits in. And I think that's a valid point that you bring that there's so many variables that, you know, we might have a machine working out in a quarter and in Western Canada, if you're running a 20,000 acre farm and you went home to get seed because your machine's running and that's 10 miles away, you don't know if it's raining or not. So how do we put those stop measures on and, and everything along those lines.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There's so many of those little, those subtle things that just pop up the human brain can just process so easily. Right. Well<laugh> how do you get that? Yeah. You know, how, how do you get the, the sensors and the, and then the inte you know, the artificial intelligence to get in there too. So, um, yeah, no, it's, you know, no
Speaker 1:Problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We've been talking a lot here about agronomy and most of it's all about, you know, the tech side of it for sure. Right. And, and yeah, that's just kind of an indication of, of what, what I'm dealing with more and, and you know exactly what we're seeing more in the industry.
Speaker 1:Exactly. And, and so a question that I guess I could ask, it's a loaded question. I know, but, um, do you believe that the job of agronomist is easier because of the adaptation of precision ag?
Speaker 2:Um, different, I, I don't know about, you know, harder or easier. I mean, obviously there's more, there's more information at your fingertips. Right. Um, right. And it's, it's about getting that information then and making it useful to, you know, your, your farmer, your, your client, um, you know, so it's a different challenge though, right. Because now there's just so much right. So much information. So how do you, you know, how do you pull that out of there and, and, and really apply it? Um, so it it's, it's, it's just changed a little bit, I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And I guess it's a, it's a different view of it now, right. Where, you know, there's a lot more probably, is there more desk work where we're working on variable rates in the background, uh, and trying to get ready for spring rather than actual consultations out in the field, working with an actual, you know, with the, with the soil and with the, with the end user in their fields?
Speaker 2:Well, definitely gives you opportunity to do a little bit more in the office. Um, yeah. Looking at some more screens, but, you know, ultimately, ultimately I think most people who got into it do enjoy being out in the field would prefer to be out for me, included, I love being out in the field and digging around. Right. And then, yeah. You know, seeing how the crop grows, it just, it just gives that extra layer of, of, um, that you can go back and look at, uh, later in the winter and, and assess then, right. Like how did that work? Um, when I put fertilizer there at that rate, you know, what, what happened and, you know, what you would rely on before I would say is, is pictures. But now it's, you know, just a camera or something like that. Now it's digitalized, it's, it's on your computer and you can, you can really look at it all year and, and, and kind of analyze it. So, um, I, I, yeah. So to your, to your question about, you know, what's has made it easier while again, there's just more information to process, so
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you still gotta get out in the field when it comes down to it. Right. Just love playing in the soil. Right.
Speaker 1:That's right. And it's always soil never, ever call it anything else other than soil. I learned that the hard way. Um, but yeah, no, it's, uh, it's been an enlightening, you know, 20 minutes here and, and I thank you very much for your time and, and shedding some light on, on both what you do for, uh, for BOGO and, and how that's kind of unique to the industry, but then also, um, giving us a little bit of a outlook between our two industries of technology and agronomy and, and maybe where we're going and, and what's happened in the past and, and how it's just keeps getting better and better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. There's uh, no, I, yeah, it's changed in the last 10 years, so I don't E you know, exponentially, I think it's gonna get even crazier moving the next, you know, from the past 10 to the next, ten's gonna be, uh, really exciting. So, uh, I think there's a lot of stuff that's coming down the lines that it is, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's quite exciting from both, like you said, uh, agronomic, uh, technological, uh, a mechanical even,
Speaker 1:Yeah. It will be quite interesting in, you know, hopefully 20 years when we're able to retire maybe 35 years. Um, but whichever that, when we look back on our time in the industry, we'll be crazy to think what, what we're talking about today or what we were learning 10 years ago when we were first both getting into this industry and, and realizing where they are, you know, 20 or 30 years from now, I think will be quite the shock when we, when we're sitting there talking about the adaptation of variable rating and we have machines doing it all over the place or, or something along those lines. Yeah. It's fun to keep an eye on and fun to look back on for sure. Or,
Speaker 2:Or everyone gets frustrated. We're all back to the horse and plow here. We gotta watch too. Yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. We never know where we're gonna end up, but, but thank you for your time today, Curtis, thank you very much for joining Topcon. Talk to agriculture. I know that I, I truly appreciated the insight and I'm sure that our listeners did as well. So thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me and, uh, yeah. Appreciate it. And look forward to the future. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll catch up soon, Curtis. Thank you. Once again, for tuning in to Topcon talks, the agriculture, uh, we look forward to having you next time. Take care, everyone.