Michele Payn, one of the world’s leading food science experts, is trying to stop the global food fight. She discusses industry topics like food bullying and food misrepresentation and explores facts around controversial GMOs, organics, pesticides, and antibiotics. Discover how agriculture and science work to impact consumer trust.
Michele Payn, one of the world’s leading food science experts, is trying to stop the global food fight. She discusses industry topics like food bullying and food misrepresentation and explores facts around controversial GMOs, organics, pesticides, and antibiotics. Discover how agriculture and science work to impact consumer trust.
Hello, and welcome to the Topcon Talks Agriculture podcast. On each episode, we discuss and share topics that are important to farmers, growers, and agribusiness. And man, do we have an awesome topic and special guest for today's episode. My name is Dan Hendricks, and I am your host for today. I serve as the Senior Business Development manager for Topcon Agriculture, and I get to work with an amazing group of talented people who love agriculture. They enjoy technology, and they strive to help farmers and growers find solutions. In today's podcast, we are going to try to clear up some confusion. It's our goal to fact check some of the misinformation that we read, that we see, and that we hear about our food. We are going to discuss the truth today about what's really in our food and what we should and shouldn't be concerned about when it comes to the things that we eat. This episode topic came about from a discussion that, uh, we had a couple of weeks ago with some of my top con team members, and we were talking about how much misinformation and manipulation happens when it comes to our food. As an example, one food franchise tells us that their food is clean, but then what exactly does clean food mean? Another brand claims that they use only all natural ingredients, but how do you define all natural? At the grocery store, we see organic or fat free, or it helps heart health or it's gluten free, or it contains real fruit juice or free range poultry, and it goes on and on and on. But there's a lot of confusion about what those terms mean and the all of the terms are just crazy and kind of out of control. And with full disclosure, let, let, let me tell you, here's my rub with all of this confusion. I believe it causes a lot of unfortunate and misguided distrust for agriculture and for the farmers and ranchers who work so hard to put food on our table. So, in an effort to shed some light and understanding on this topic and find out the truth behind our food, we have invited author and food marketing expert Michelle Payne to join us. Michelle is one of the leading experts in the US connecting farm and food in 2001, she founded the company Cause Matters that exist to create connections around the food plate. Her work and books focus on addressing food myths, developing science communication, and connecting food to farm. She is an international award-winning author. Her latest book entitled Food Bullying, how to Avoid Buying Bs has won several awards, and she has developed the Food Bullying podcast to help people understand the main reason that food should be about comfort and celebration. So, Michelle, welcome to the Topcon Podcast.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for having me. I am excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Uh, well, we are thrilled to have you and, uh, we just hope to glean some insight from you over these next 30 minutes. So l let me start out by asking to tell us a little bit more about your personal background and what is your connection to agriculture?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, I was born into agriculture and have a lifelong love affair with beautiful black and white Holstein cows. I grew up on a dairy farm in southern Michigan, and, um, learned most of my life lessons there. Graduated from Michigan State University, go green to any Spartans that are listening, I have to get that plug in there. And, um, actually started working, uh, believe it or not, selling semen and embryos internationally, which is makes for fascinating airplane conversations. Let me just leave it at that<laugh>. And then, um, went on to work for the national F F A Foundation, uh, to be able to raise a whole lot of money for an organization that had a significant impact on my life. Had a short stint in e-business and then decided to start my own business as a professional speaker. I never really believed that I would be an author, but, uh, found myself writing my first book in 2013 and really what my connection has been to help those in agriculture have the tough conversations. Uh, back when I started in 2001, I had to convince a whole lot of people that advocacy was an issue that people didn't know, they didn't trust, and they didn't understand agriculture. I no longer have to convince people of that problem. Um, and throughout the, the years, my, my topics have evolved into working with dieticians and those in nutrition, nutrition side of the business. Uh, my food bullying, uh, podcast is actually co-hosted by a dietician and we specifically focus on some farm stories to help those who prioritize nutrition. And then, um, I also have, uh, evolved in the last couple of years to include, uh, helping people have the tough conversations about stress and mental wellness and agriculture. I think we all know that we have a problem on our hands that we need to better handle stress. So that's kind of in a nutshell. I still own registered holing, uh, cattle today. They're running around my front yard, hopefully behind a fence. My daughter and I greatly enjoy showing them. And I live, uh, west in west central Indiana on a small farm and, and, and travel the world to be able to serve farmers and others are on the plate.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about, you don't have to talk people into the importance of advis advocacy now. What, what do you exactly mean by that?
Speaker 2:Well, when you think of the case studies of what has happened in agriculture and the lost practices, the lost products that we could no longer use, R B S T gestation stalls, cage-free. Um, you look at chemicals that can no longer be used. The reality is is that the 98.5% of the population that's not on a farmer ranch today doesn't know us. They don't trust us. And unfortunately, they're easy per easily persuaded, which is why I wrote food bullying is because I saw a lot of brains being manipulated around food and how food is raised.
Speaker 1:And who is your typical audience of, for, for your books or when you speak, are they producers, consumers, educators, or,
Speaker 2:I work with all, I particularly love working with farmers. Um, I've had people tell me, uh, that they, they can see that I know what they're thinking extremely well and it makes them very uncomfortable. And honestly, I'm probably known for antagonizing farmers into action because I can get away with it as one of them, honestly. And I do it out of love. To be clear, it's not any ill intention, but it is time that we stand up and speak out. We all know that we have issues with people who don't understand our business. But I will also tell you that I work with dtic audiences. Um, my three books are all heavily cited, in particular the last two. Uh, so food bullying and food truths from farm to table have been used in dietetic curriculum, which is a huge honor to me. Um, because it is something that allows me to take the producer voice, to take the farmer voice, to take the veterinarian voice into the community of the people that are, are helping others choose their nutrition.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And what has maintained your interest in food science after all this time?
Speaker 2:Uh, well, the, my interest is probably more in the production of food than it is in food science. I love science to be clear. Um, but food science is a, a pretty hardcore discipline. It's pretty easy for me. I love agriculture. I love the people of agriculture, and I strongly believe that we have to do more to speak out and connect on a human level with the people that aren't on a farm or ranch, and we need to do so proactively. Um, and the other piece of it is, is trying to take a look at some of the, the world problems that we have, food insecurity, um, suicide rates in agriculture, looking at sustainability and looking at some of the, the big picture problems. That's really kind of what keeps me up at night.
Speaker 1:Now you're known for connecting people to food and agriculture and the, the things that we eat through your books and your podcast and speaking. But, but break that down. What does that exactly mean? I mean, for the person out there that is just listening and, and trying to understand that, can you put it in just real simple terms for us?
Speaker 2:Sure. If you're driving around at a tractor, do you know how to go talk to a person who's shopping at Whole Foods? Uh, probably not. And what I try to challenge people to do on both sides of the plate is to be able to connect on a human level. So we, in agriculture, we love our technology, right? I mean, especially at your company. We, we love data, we love science. Um, Illinois Farm Families did a study, uh, several years ago now that showed that people, people trust farmers but they don't trust farming. And when you think about that, and the people of agriculture I see in my audience is really struggle with that. One is about the people, the humans. So they trust the people, but they don't trust the process because they don't know the process. They won't trust the process, and they won't, um, be able to understand what we're doing unless we are able to communicate more effectively with them. And that involves connecting at an emotional level.
Speaker 1:And would you say that for most farmers they have trouble like separating those two between farming and the process? Cuz to them it's kind of one and the same?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this gets into one of the reasons why I believe, and I've observed that we have a mental health problem in agriculture. Um, many farmers believe that they were created as a farmer. And, uh, I will argue all day long that you were created as a human being first. And unfortunately, when people lose their businesses, when they lose their farms, their identity is so closely tied to that, it becomes a real issue. Um, and I understand that my parents actually lost our farm to bankruptcy several years ago now. So I understand the pain that's associated with that. But when it comes to connecting with others who aren't out there driving a tractor, who don't own an agribusiness, who don't understand the trials and tribulations of what it takes to milk cows or grow cattle or, uh, get that fuel of weed or corn off, um, we have to be able to connect with them as a human first and be able to relate to them, whether it's about the badgers versus the Spartans, uh, whether it's about the art or whether it's about hunting or exercising or being a father or an uncle or a mom. Um, it, I always try to encourage people of agriculture to relate to the rest of the world as humans first. And that will give you the permission to talk about the process and the products and some of the things that you want to talk about.
Speaker 1:That's a fascinating perspective. Um, so tell me about your latest book Food Bullying. Wh where did that title come from,
Speaker 2:<laugh>? Well, it came from a person who's really sick of claims, like clean food that you had said. I always wanna ask, um, Panera, if they washed their food, if they washed their hands, what, what exactly that means. And I actually use that as an example in food bullying. So food today is a 9 trillion business that includes all of us in agriculture. Um, when I wrote food bullying was a 5.75 trillion business. So we looked at what, 15% inflation in food last year, 10% expected this year. Those are some crazy numbers, but what an opportunity for us to be able to illustrate to people, um, that we are trying to do the right thing in raising food and keeping those costs down. So food bullying really is a look at how brains are manipulated. And, and you had alluded to the Stan, people feel confused, they feel guilty about food, and I contend that food is first about nourishment. Um, and then it's about celebration and tradition. I mean, think about how many memories you have around your family's food table and how special those are. And so I really wrote food bullying to try to remove the guilt and to share real life farm stories, stories from veterinarian stories, um, from dieticians, those with firsthand expertise and food, nutrition, farming, ranching, agriculture, uh, so that we could get some truth out there about what is happening in the way food is raised today.
Speaker 1:So how would you say that we can build food trust with consumers? What are some of the practical steps?
Speaker 2:Uh, great question. Easier, um, said than done in some cases. But I will tell every listener out there that you can make a significant difference in this because without fail, I've actually had one client who I've sent out, had, um, people go out in their leadership class in Iowa Farm Bureau for 20 years now and interview non-ag agriculture people in their community. And without fail, people will say, well, I know you, and that means that people who farm this are okay, whether it's beef farmer, whether it's, uh, bean farmer, whatever it may be. So the point here is, is that your personal story can actually make a huge difference. So taking the time to talk to people when they have questions, and rather than being defensive and getting mad when the latest crap comes out,<laugh> about what's, what's wrong with farming are the latest video. I mean, we've all seen them. And the reality is, is that we have to be able to humanize agriculture. And that starts with having conversations and it involves biting your tongue when people say things that you don't like. Um, and it involves listening. And one of the greatest challenges is that I've had in my career is to take my farm hat off and to listen and learn, um, from consumers who are radically different than me. And those conversations are really important. So I, I would suggest on a practical level, have a conversation. Listen, learn. And if you can't think of anything else to say, ask the person why do you feel that way? And you might be surprised at what you learn.
Speaker 1:That's good. So, so being less defensive would be, uh, uh, yes. A step. Okay. Very interesting.
Speaker 2:That would be fantastic. So
Speaker 1:Why do you think there is this disconnect between what you know to be true on farms and farming and then maybe in the, the general population or the person that's at Whole Foods that's buying, why is there a disconnect?
Speaker 2:You know, when I wrote food bullying, um, I developed a cycle of food bullying, and it starts over at nine o'clock with disconnect. You know, we all know that there's only 1.5% of the population that's on a farmer ranch today. Uh, so there's this disconnect. And I think if we're all be, uh, honest, we probably would rather deal with our land and our animals, then we would with other human beings. That's just a natural tendency in agriculture. No judgment. Um, so there's this, yeah, there's this disconnect. And interestingly enough, this was pre covid. Um, my alma mater, Michigan State did a study that showed that 75% of people had not met on a farmer ranch in the last five years prior to the study. And Michigan's an incredibly diverse agriculture state if you're not aware. And I'm sure that number has gone up significantly. So if people aren't coming to the farmer ranch and we're not talking to them, this disconnect is going to, uh, grow. And obviously the next one up, which is on at 12 o'clock on the cycle is distrust. Uh, you don't trust what you don't know. Uh, when you think about that, consider a salesperson or a consultant that walks onto your farm and tells you that they need to educate you without asking any questions. That sometimes is what we in agriculture try to do with the rest of the world. So we need to understand that there's this disconnect with this distrust, because again, they trust the people of agriculture. They don't necessarily trust the process. And then after that, at three o'clock comes fear, and the next step is bullying. Because with the fear that comes as natural distrust, there's fear that they're not buying the right food for their family. There's fear that farmers are abusing animals. There's fear that, uh, farmers are pouring chemicals on the land. There's fear in the technology that's being used to produce food today. And we approach it at agriculture from the farm perspective. Um, for example, we have the world's safest, most abundant food supply and trustingly enough, uh, at least 40% of Americans don't think it's our responsibility to feed the world. And for Canadian listeners, I've seen parallel numbers in your country as well. So we have to try to step back and see what people are thinking. And so much of that is emotionally driven. And that was one of the things that I showcased in food bullying.
Speaker 1:Michelle, here's what really ticks me off. I question the motive of the terms that is used in food marketing because I hate the distrust that it breeds in consumers towards agriculture and farmers. Uh, just like you have said, um, I have a really good friend who's been farming all of his life and he was telling me that he was in Colorado, uh, visiting his family and he saw some protestors and went up and found out that they were protesting against GMOs being unsafe. And, uh, he, he said he, he tried to do what you said and tried to humanize it, but he said he told the, the lady that was standing there, the college student with the sign, he said, the food I raise on my farm is the food that I feed to my wife and to my kids and to my grandkids. And if for a second I believed it was unsafe, w why would I feed it to them? And he just said, you know, there was this little bit of like, shell shock of, I've never thought about that, so.
Speaker 2:Well, that's good.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yeah. But so do you feel like, where does this bullying come from? Is it from the manufacturers, the, the, the restaurant industry or the marketing of them? Or like, why is the bullying happening and like, who's it coming from?
Speaker 2:Well, it can come from all levels. I mean, including farmers. Let's, let's face it, if, if I was honest and I had to write this in the book when I wrote the book, cause I didn't wanna be a hypocrite, I'm a food bully.
Speaker 1:In what way? Tell me what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:Number one, I'm a mom. Every mom that I've ever met as a food bully in some way<laugh>, and I'm being facetious, I don't wanna insult anyone, but for example, the what I put in the book is my, my husband who does not cook often, but he likes to tease me that he would like to cook corn beef hash. And my immediate response is not in my kitchen. I don't wanna smell that<laugh>. So that's a fun example. And here's, here's the deal that we have to realize is not everybody who is a bully intends to be a bully. One of the examples that I used was, uh, one of my dear friends is in the fitness training business. And she attended a class where the woman who had no dietetic background, no professional nu nutri nutrition training and certainly no training in agriculture, uh, the woman went on to tell everyone about how exactly they should eat, which included dairy-free, gluten-free vegan, so forth and so on, and high pressure situation. That's an example of an extreme in-person bully. There's bullies all over Facebook and I think we all know that I would never recommend that you use the hashtag GMO on Twitter, for example, cuz you'll get the crazies that come out. But there's also farmers who, who bully. And this is where I would challenge some thinking. I have a friend Ryan Weeks, who farms several thousand acres, um, very progressive farmer in Nebraska. He transitioned over half of his acres to organic. And as a conent, he has been ostracized from the agriculture community by and large, locally because he chose to farm organically. And to me it's about choice. You know, food is a choice and, and farming is a choice. So that, that's an example of bullying that most people don't necessarily like to hear about. But it is the truth. You know, I could also tell, be honest and tell you that I am a complete bully when it comes to breeding dairy cattle. Cuz I will not have a red and white heifer on my farm. I will not have anything but black and white Holsteins and I don't like little brown cows. So<laugh>. But to get to the point of your question about food packaging, here's the deal. Um, people don't understand, for example, that milk is all antibiotic free as a, if it is sold as grade a milk in the United States. So they see, same with chicken, same with meat. They see antibiotic free and they think, oh, I need to avoid the other meat because antibiotics are bad and they don't realize the testing and the protocols that are in place to protect our food supply. And we have to take responsibility for that because that means that we haven't communicated with them. So,
Speaker 1:So it's, it's, it's kind of a twist. I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's kind of a marketing play then it
Speaker 2:Kind a
Speaker 1:Twist in the marketing Yeah. To get you to buy their product or think, well, of course it is. Their product is superior.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in the book, one of the, um, personal highlights of the book, um, for when I was writing food bullying was, uh, uh, it was a brand new study at the time from Dr. Tyler Davis. He was at Texas Tech, unfortunately he's now with meta, but he's a neuroscientist. And to be clear, my degrees are in animal science and agriculture communications. I am not a neuroscientist. And I had to study the brain a whole lot to even be able to explain this. But what his study did is showed in the prefrontal cortex that your, your brain basically reacts one of two ways, which we all know fight or flight, right? And so he studied people's, um, reaction, the prefrontal cortex's reaction to modern day, uh, agriculture production technology, including GMOs, hormones, antibiotics, uh, sustainability and animal welfare. And what he found is that the brain reacts positively. It, it chills out in non-scientific te terms when it comes to topics around animal welfare, believe it or not, and sustainability, which I know some people hate the term sustainability, and you think climate change is a farce. But I would also challenge you to say that if people look at agriculture as bad sustainability actors, and we have a lot of things taken away in the future, we probably ought to figure out how to talk about that more. But to get back to the study he used F M R I and basically showed that the, the brain, um, and non-scientific terms kind of freaked out about hormones, antibiotics, and GMOs, which is not a surprise to any of us.
Speaker 1:So who would you say are the influencers to this problem?
Speaker 2:<laugh>? Well, there are many, uh, social media obviously. Um, I think we have to look across and there's Dr. Oz, there's Food Bay, there's lots of people. Um, there's some that I follow on Instagram that literally make my brain below apart. Um, I would also say that dieticians and farmers are influencers too. Food, food processors, food retailers, um, food service companies, there's any number. Um, the challenge that we have to try to help people understand is that the labels that are on a package are kind of like lipstick on a pig. Um, you, you can put as much lipstick as you want on the pig, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig. And I went through several hundred pages of, um, label requirements in labels and so forth. When I wrote food bullying, I covered them all in I think chapter 13 of the book. But it's all in one chapter. There are far fewer labels that are measured and meaningful, um, that are truly defined, and therefore they have distinction. There's far fewer of those labels than what many people realize. Sustainable is not a label that is anything but bullying because it's not measurable. Um, farm raised is a label that kind of makes my brain explode. I don't know how you feel about that, Dan, but it makes me really angry,
Speaker 1:Right? It's just, it's completely vague,
Speaker 2:Right? And it, it's not measured, it's not defined. Non G M O is a paid to play label. If you're not aware, there's only about a dozen food, um, that that actually can be genetically modified. And so companies are paying a significant amount of money to have that non G M O label slapped on. And to me that's an ethical, I'm sorry, but if there's not an, if there's not a pepper out there that's a gmo, you shouldn't have a non GMO label on that. Um, whole grains is actually one, the whole grains label is a positive example that is defined. It is measured, it is meaningful. So we've got some major challenges when you look at the influences because it's not just social media, it's also people's, again, disconnect from agriculture and the confusion and the mess that we have happening on the front of food packages.
Speaker 1:So if I am a farmer operator listening to this podcast that owns and operates some kind of farm, and I'm in agriculture, what would you say to me that I could do to help this problem? What are some practical things that I could do to like say, you know, make a difference,
Speaker 2:Uh, engage in conversation in a human personal emotional way? Uh, psychology clearly proves that if people have that trust connection, um, that you're going to have a more positive conversation. So for some of your listeners, that means posting photos on Instagram about the upcoming planting season or harvesting, whatever it may be, calving, um, posting some photos and providing some context to why we do what we do in agriculture. Uh, for other listeners, that means that in your church parking lot, talking about what you're doing in the field and, and if you plant G M O corn, why you plant G M O corn and why it actually, um, can save you, uh, from fuel, um, from chemical usage and, and so forth. If you're in a grocery store, taking the time to pause and try to have a conversation, not in some weird way, but to have a conversation with people, um, that are trying to figure out what to buy in their food. And one of the fun things that I always have people do that I've gotten some interesting feedback from is, at your next major family gathering, ask your extended family members how they feel about today's farming. And then promise me you won't throw food at them
Speaker 1:<laugh> because you think they're, most of their answers are gonna be very negative.
Speaker 2:Well, not necessarily negative, but I have had people over the years completely shocked by, um, their siblings, their cousins, their aunts, their uncles, their grandkids that grew up on farms that don't understand they, so you think about it, the brain is constantly exposed to, we have what, 10,000 messages flying at us every day. So you see non gmo, you see non gmo, you hear an article, oh what farmers are doing weird things with your food? Oh, maybe we shouldn't trust this. So it's a natural human response. Um, and before you think that I'm completely slamming GMOs, what's been really exciting for me is I never thought the pendulum would swing, um, on biotech, but it absolutely has. Cuz we've actually seen, um, cargo here change some of their plants from non GMO to accepting all sorts of grains. Now we've seen some movement in Europe and people finally are starting to realize that genetic modification, whether it's CRISPR biotechnology or whatever it may be, just breeding good cattle, that that can actually help you save on some food costs, which we all need to do today. Um, so there's, there's been some really positive movement and I think that the more farmers that we have just out there having a conversation, and again, please don't dump data and puke science on people's shoes. Try your best to connect with them on an emotional level. And you might be surprised at where you get,
Speaker 1:If, if I throw out some terms that I, that we would say are scary terms, can you help me like you explain really quickly what these things actually mean and why or why are, why or why not, we should be scared of them. Like with G gmo, how would you define that? If someone's listening and they're like, I hear that I, but I don't know what that means.
Speaker 2:Yep. Quick answer on that is to look up the be label, which stands for bio-engineered, which was a label that was supposed to be required starting in 2022. I think it, it was delayed because of covid. Um, genetic modification is extremely difficult to explain in a society where two-thirds of people don't understand that their food has d n A in it. I mean, I want you to think about that. That's a serious st. Statistics<laugh>. So
Speaker 1:What about the term organic?
Speaker 2:Uh, so organic is a farming choice and it's, uh, one that many I'm sure probably don't necessarily like to hear, but it is monitored and measured by the U S D A. The U S D A organic seal is a, um, again, meaningful label because it is defined clearly and it is monitored and measured. The way I look at it is a farming choice. It's not necessarily more nutritious, but it is a choice for some producers to
Speaker 1:Make. Okay, thank you for that. Now, when someone says pesticides, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Yes, so pesticides are really interesting cuz obviously it's a huge class of products. So we, you have to know that it involves fungus to treat, to create, to treat fruits and veggies. It involves, um, insecticides to kill all the nasty little bugs. It includes herbicides to kill weeds. I just sprayed some on my yard yesterday. And the way that I try to get, uh, people outside of agriculture understand what pesticides are is to talk about aphids on their tomato plant that they have on their patio or, uh, how they treat their roses. And usually they can identify that there's nasty little bugs that they have to put things on. And so I just explained to them the same thing has to happen, um, in a field. And rather than getting in the statistics of the overuse of what's happening with fertilization and yards versus farms, because that's fairly accusatory, I just try to help them understand that where food grows, bugs go, and that bug can be a mold, it can be an actual insect, it can be a weed and such. Um, they don't have perspective if they've never walked a field of exactly all the nasties that can happen out there. So it's our job to help them with that.
Speaker 1:Sure. So when a consumer is shopping at a local grocery store or a farmer's market, what things should they take into consideration when they're choosing their food?
Speaker 2:Uh, so simple answer is to buy the food that your family likes that meets your nutritional needs. And for me, most often that involves store brand. Um, and involves the, I actively try to avoid the non GMO label. But the best piece of advice that I can give when you're selecting your food is to look at the nutrition fax label. Um, the first ingredient on a package is the predominant ingredient. Um, and so for example, if you wanna make sure that you're getting more fiber, make sure that the bread you're buying actually is made with whole wheat, um, rather than than usual flour. So nutrition facts label the ingredients panel. Um, and aside from that, I don't worry about a whole lot because I think it's, again, unethical to make claims on food packages that aren't necessarily true or at the very best are misleading.
Speaker 1:Okay, sure. That aren't accurate would be another way to say that, right? Yes. Yeah. So are there rational or irrational concerns that when you, when a consumer's buying meat or dairy or produce?
Speaker 2:Well, antibiotics are most often in the meat case and food truce and, uh, excuse me, and food truce from farm to table antibiotics were, were one of the biggest concerns that I had to cover. Um, because people are worried rightfully so that they're feeding their family antibiotics. So number one, you need to know that meat, um, is tested regularly. All milk is tested multiple times. And when I talk about antibiotics with consumers, this is usually what it sounds like. Uh, one of my daughter's cow's name was peppermint. She looked like the Chick-fil-A cow. She's a magnet for people at the state therap. They're always flocking around her. And literally when I was writing my books, I tested this story with several different moms and it seemed to make antibiotics more comfortable. I will ask women literally, have you ever had mastitis? And I know most guys aren't going to ask a woman that. However, I think you probably all have experience with somebody who ha has mastitis and their life. And my understanding is that it's exceedingly painful. It makes a person miserable and such. So I simply say, well, imagine what peppermint with 70 pounds of utter hanging beneath her must feel like when she has mastitis. And literally there's cringing. And I'm like, that's why we use antibiotics. And that makes it okay to people because they suddenly can relate to what the animal is going through. And when you remember the neuroscience, it relates it back to animal welfare. So the brain goes, hello, that's acceptable. So that's a really long answer by the cheapest milk in, um, meat that you can, that your family likes. That's my simple recommendation. And know that antibiotics in the United States and in Canada are not a huge concern.
Speaker 1:Well, I think what you just said that story, it, it kind of humanizes the issue and helps us to kind of understand it. So, uh, you had mentioned earlier about, uh, Topcon, and I mean most of our listeners know Topcon is a precision agriculture company. But my question relates to that. It, how does technology, uh, and precision agriculture impact food safety?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's technology is so cool. So companies like Topcon have a responsibility to be able to help your customers to share the story about how Precision's being used, whether it's drone or gps or, or whatever it may be. And the environmental implications of being able to use some of those robots and, and milking cows, whatever the precision technology may be. We do amazing things when it comes to technology and agriculture, but we don't tell the story. And so how are people supposed to know what precision agriculture really is if we're not out there illustrating that, I would challenge you to go out there and share pictures every single week, if not every single day, about what's happening in fields and how it's reducing chemical usage and what you're doing to be able to help farmers use less fertilizer and therefore reduce their costs. Because we all know that's critically important this year. And to look at the big picture of sustainability because precision is a huge part of that. But again, people won't trust it if they don't see it and know the why behind we using it, why we use it.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yes. And they're just scared about the technology part. That word's just kind of a scary word.
Speaker 2:Well, of course it is. You know, technology is cool when it's in the palm of your hand, but it's less cool when it's in the food that's going in your mouth,
Speaker 1:Right? Yes. That's what we've been taught. So are there other farm or food myths that you can debunk for us? I mean, there are other things that are common that you could help our listeners understand.
Speaker 2:Sure. The big ones that I hear about, we've covered, uh, we haven't really covered animal welfare. A great deal for those of you that work in animal agriculture, know that people's reference point is their comp is their companion animals anthropo mine station is the humanization of animals. It's very real. We're all guilty. How many of you have been to Disney and hugged a rodent<laugh>? Uh, that's just the reality of our world today, right? You know, you look at the pet business and it's a multi-billion dollar business globally that's growing at untold rates. So here's the deal. How can you share with the rest of the world that your animals are an hourly concern? What you're doing daily for them, how technology is helping you increase their comfort, um, and what you're doing to help reduce food costs too in an ethical, humane way. And before you roll your eyes, remember people's reference point are their dogs and their cats. So just as I told the story of peppermint and giving her antibiotics, because it's the kindest thing to do, not to mention it's the the best thing to do if you want your cow to be able to produce milk, um, that opens up the line of questions because of course, I'm not ever going to tell someone that we're giving peppermint antibiotics without making sure that they understand that that milk is withheld and that there is a stringent protocol in place and there are absolute consequences for farmers and veterinarians, um, around that. So we talked animal welfare, antibiotics, hormones, GMOs, uh, sustainability we didn't touch on real quickly. I will leave it at this, whether you like the term sustainability, whether you believe in greenhouse gas emissions. The reality is, is that we are at a time on our society where we have to address carbon. We have to address what's happening in the environment, and we are going to have our trust in agriculture eroded significantly if we don't get on top of it. So rather than looking at it as a political issue, just know it's something that you have to weave into the stories that you tell. I mean, we all love the land or we wouldn't be on it. So how do you take care of it? Just tell people about it. The only other thing that I would like to discuss, um, with it being such a busy season for your listeners, so hopefully they're, they're listening to this maybe while they're planting or getting into hay or whatever they season they may be in, um, is to realize that your personal wellness is probably more important than the equipment that you're operating. And we take little time in agriculture to consider that. Um, so my hope is, is that maybe today you can think about how you can get more sleep, uh, exercise, step away from the farm if you have to eat a little bit better, um, just take care of yourself because we really need you. Uh, we need everybody who's out there farming to take better care of yourself. So a bit off topic, but something that I think is really important.
Speaker 1:No, that is very, very important. Michelle. Thank you so much for joining us and for helping me and our listeners understand the truth about our food. It's, it's been enlightening and very educational and interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for having me and, uh, look forward to connecting with you.
Speaker 1:To learn more, visit Michelle's website@www.causematters.com. You can also check out the Food Bullying podcast. You can find Michelle on social media at M Payne Speaker. And that is spelled m p A Y n speaker, s p e a k e r. And that's on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. You can also find Michelle's work on Facebook by Searching Cause Matters. And I want to thank each of our listeners for tuning in today. Topcon appreciates all of our friends in agriculture who work so tirelessly to put food on our tables. If you enjoy this podcast, remember to like, share, subscribe to Topcon Talks Agriculture on Spotify, apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for joining us today. See you next time. Go out and make it a great day.