Topcon Talks Agriculture
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Topcon Talks Agriculture
Pain Points Removed | S05E05
Opportunities are exploding with Ag technology according to EFC Evangelist Jeremy Wilson. He and Jared talk about the ROI and managing your nutrients effectively and in-season decisions during this episode of Topcon Talks Agriculture.
Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of Topcon talks, agriculture. I'm your host today? Jared Oaks. I'm a senior product manager of IOT for Topcon agriculture. Thanks for listening to the podcast and subscribing to our series today on the podcast, we have a wonderful guest. Mr. Jeremy is currently the senior vice president of product evangelism with EFC systems. Hello, good morning, Jeremy. How are you?
Speaker 2:Good, good morning, Jared. Nice to visit with you today.
Speaker 1:Yes. Thanks so much for jumping on the podcast. I'll I'll let our listeners know of course you and I have known each other for several years now, but Jeremy's background is in agricultural data systems as well as companies that operate and work in that space. And Jeremy is also the owner of a farm. So not only does he put together some ones and zeros for some of these fun agricultural data challenges that our industry faces, he also, uh, knows how to set the AB line and, uh, adjust the deck plates. Would that, would that be fair to say, Jerry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty fair assessment and, uh,<laugh> adjustable deck plates is, uh, something I got to deal with this fall. So yeah, Jared, you know, I, I've got a extensive background in the whole, I guess we'll call it ag tech space. Now, when I joined it, it was all called precision ag, but been involved in, in production agriculture and working at a lot of different levels from, you know, creators of technology, to software companies and done a wide range of things from working ag, retail, being involved, selling inputs, chemical seeds, and fertilizers, and then made that move over to the precision ag space or ag tech space. Um, probably full time in about 2008. Uh, I first started dabbling in it in probably late 96, um, mid 96, probably, uh, very heavily involved and through 99 when I went to ag retail and got to ag retail and realized that, um, technology and, and how we could take precision and be better was gonna, you know, affect ag retail. So I got back in it and then in 2006, uh, joined a company. It was part of starting up a company called crop IMS that, uh, I spent a good number of years where we worked directly with growers from installing precision ag hardware to helping them manage data and get data collected. And then I went to EF C um, I guess now in gosh, three and a half years ago, three years ago now, probably. And, uh, on the software side, on the software development and in 2019, uh, had the privilege of taking over my father's farm. And 2019 was probably one of the roughest years of my life. Uh, 2020, the good Lord blessed me to heal some of my sins of 19 and 2021 was a, another, you know, really good year on the farm. And, and, um, I guess I get to start over now. I think I've healed up the sins of, of 19 now through 20 and 21. And so I guess I'm fortunate and get to try again for 2022, but, um, 20, 22 has some unique challenges of its own.
Speaker 1:Ha have you ever heard of there? There's a, you know, there, I think it's, I think it actually stems from a book or a series of articles, but it's, it's called 40 chances. It talks about, have you seen that? I, I think I even recently spoke about that a little bit on the, uh, on, on the podcast. So, uh, yeah, I, I think, uh, I think that's the true nature of agriculture. We, we get that opportunity each and every season. Thank the Lord. Yep. Um, sometimes we, we learn from this sins of yes or year, sometimes we, we are a little hardheaded and, and don't, but such as agriculture, absolutely. Now with, with your extensive, uh, you know, background and experience, not only being an operator in the cab, uh, being an ag retail say early on working with, uh, very at that time, rudimentary soil sampling and geotagging systems for say grid sampling you just as an example. Oh yeah. You know, the progression in which you not only have experienced, but have hands on or boots on the ground, uh, knowledge of is, is really unique to, to you, Jeremy. Um, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny you, uh, ask that question, Jared, cuz I was working with a, another company this morning looking at some field boundaries and, and we loaded one into their system and it it's a boundary that, you know, it we've made a small change. We we've rebuilt some waterways and other things and we farm across it and in the middle of the discussion for the, the tool that he wanted to run my boundary in, I said, well, this is gonna mess up your system because I don't really farm it that way anymore. And I said, here, let me go in and make a few edits. There's looks like there's just like two or three points there. And when I got to digging it apart and trying to edit this boundary, when it was all said and done, there was like 31 points that had been dropped around this little point of a waterway. And, and this gentleman on the phone's like, Jeremy, what did you do? And I said, well, you gotta remember this boundary was collected in like 1997 or 98. When I think that I was using a Panasonic CF 25 with a tremble 1 32 hooked on it. And we were trying to figure out how we could stop collecting as many points as what we needed to, but we just didn't have the filters then. And I'm sorry, it's this way I, I probably need to update it, but really there's not that much wrong with this, so why do I need to change it? And yeah, he's like, it's changed that much. I said, well, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I said, let's go to another spot. I can show you another spot. There's like 50 of them because it broke everybody's system. The first three times we loaded it till we figured out how to go rerun it and get rid of some. And it was kind of an interesting conversation. It's so funny, you brought that up because you know, we are still, you know, technology's been such an important part of our farm really, since I'm gonna say the mid 1990s, I think 95, 96 is about the first year that, you know, my dad did some grid, soil sampling and boy, you know, I think it was probably just not marketed the best when we first started it because as we just didn't know what to expect, and it's just been a privilege and an honor to get to grow up in this thing and, and see how the technology has changed. And, you know, I spent a good piece of the morning, you know, processing some data this fall and, you know, I just looking at the yield data and, and how yield data has changed and how, you know, even around field boundaries and, and the layers of data and that we collect now at man, Jared, it's been, it's been an exciting few years, but just the changes we've seen over the last, I'm gonna say three to five, or it's probably as exciting as it's been for me since the, you know, early two thousands.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I, I, I'm a bit biased of course, uh, as this is, you know, my, my everyday job, but myself as a grower and, uh, and on the cattle side with, with a cow calf operation on, on the family farm as well, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, I couldn't agree with you more. It's extremely exciting. Um, the statistical, uh, side of me that li that lives inside, not that I'm a math mm-hmm<affirmative> guy, uh, but you know, when it comes to, uh, conversations with the bank conversation with landlords conversations, with the family about ROI and costs and, uh, capital expenditures. Yeah. This information empowers, uh, you know, really a new way of, of looking at things. And I've spoken about this with previous, uh, podcast guests as well. But I think what we might not remember, I think you, you can likely relate to this is how amazing, uh, it is to think that our grandfathers and, and great grandfathers did a pretty good job at doing a lot of this just in their head, uh, you know, while they were operating or while they were doing that tillage operation or while they were combining, you know, they were doing all these things, all these calculations in their head, uh, probably thinking about purchasing decisions, managing risk, mitigating risk things. They would've done differently. Things they might do differently next year. Now, of course, growing up as a, uh, you know, a kid on the farm. I didn't know that, uh, I didn't ask those questions, but now this data creates a trail of breadcrumbs. I would say for maybe even future generations to kind of watch almost watch your game film if I, if I may from, you know, from previous years and, and gain a new understanding as to how and why, and when, and there's a, there's a lot of value there, not only from a financial standpoint for the overall health and productivity of, uh, your farm, uh, land parcels and assets, but an, you know, another level of value there is just, uh, you know, the bond that, that creates with your family, your, your workers, your, your landlords, your tenants, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Yep. You, you know, you're exactly right. And, you know, you threw out a word there that screams out and, and, you know, looking at return on investment and also lending, you know, I, when I went into my lender in 2019, um, a brand new bank, I I'd never done business with them. Yes. It was a local small town. I mean, smaller bank in my small town that I call home now and, you know, going in there, I, I had put together a budget and had taken a tremendous amount of, of data and, and, you know, kind of had a plan and went in with like, you know, I had one spreadsheet, but had a lot of stacks of, you know, historical yield data and other things. And, you know, I looked across at the banker and said, well, you know, I I've looked at this in like 14 different ways. And, and I know I'm taking a risk and, and can I look at you square in the eye and say, this is probably the smartest decision I've ever made in my life. I'm gonna say, no, I can't say that. But I said, I think I can show you here. Why, what my thinking is and why I feel like this is a good investment for me at this time. And, you know, we walked through all that and we got to the end and he scratched his head. And he said, Jeremy, he said, I've always known you, you lived in this town forever. He said, I knew you involved in technology, but he says, you've just showed me more about your farm than I know about half of the farms that I've landed to for the last 35 years. He says, I can't imagine the loan department will tell you no, because you brought the data and showed yep. You know, you probably need a day job to make this thing fly for at least the first five years or six years to you, you know, buy it off and get this loan paid down of all the equipment that you've had to purchase off your dad and, you know, a little bit of land. And mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, I just think this whole landscape is, is about to change even from not from the obvious. And I'll get to that in a minute, but just from a lending standpoint. And, you know, I, as I look at my yield data and, you know, we, we do a lot of work, you know, trying to get a yield monitor as calibrated, as close as we can. And, and sometimes we're really good. And, and sometimes we're a bit out to lunch and, you know, when you take, and you combine that with data that we get off the grain cart, how we can post calibrate that yield data and how, you know, these post calibrations are, are moving to a point where they're gonna be real time and, you know, yield data is gonna be clean and ready to operate off of quicker than it's ever been. You know, there's just a lot of these pain points that are, that are being removed from the run of the mill grower that just didn't maybe wanna mess with it. And, you know, as I look at, from a service provider standpoint, I mean, I I've been in industry now for a, a while. There's a piece of me wants to go back to ag retail because the opportunity right now for you to have a new relationship with your growers is just kind of off the chart, Jared, because we've got so much technology that can, you can use to fine tune, you know, agronomic decisions and, and, and help that grower make decisions, but what you can do to help those guys be positioned for lending and, and be in a position to, you know, buy assets, you know, whether that's equipment or whether that's land. I mean, just this technology has just advanced so much and sorry, I do. It's not, it's not just, it's more than just grid soil sampling now, or it's more than just, well, how did hybrid a due to hybrid B and, and I I'll get off my soap box, cuz I could go on for this, for your whole podcast, but no, man, there's just so much opportunities. That's come now with advancements
Speaker 1:<laugh> you're you're right. I, I think when the majority of growers, uh, hear the word ag technology or ag tech or just tech technology, they likely imme, you know, immediately they think of, uh, variety seeding, variety technology. One may argue that that has in fact had the, the greatest positive impact on their bottom line. One could argue that they also may immediately think of kind of the, you know, the probably the most prominent, which is yield data auto steering and section control. You know, those three technologies are, I guess, one could consider almost table stakes at this stage in the game for, uh, for a grower. You know, you've got to have a yield recording and capture, uh, technology on your machine. You've got to have auto steering and you've got to have section control at, at a minimum, probably on a, on the sprayer, if not on, uh, on other extremely costly, you know, input machines. So for those growers that are in that scenario today, where, when they hear about ag technology, they think about, yep, I've got auto steer, I've got section control, I'm doing yield maps. Um, what advice would you give those growers? You know, where's their, where's their next point? You know, if they're not doing this, they need to really consider it and look into it. They, they will get an ROI if they, if they're not doing that, maybe what's the next item. You know, what is that from a guy like you that has with all due respect, kind of dabbled in at all Jeremy seen, you know, to taken, there's probably been some things you've tried or done that. Yeah. That, that maybe wasn't a good investment or a good idea, knowing what, you know, you know, what advice would you maybe give to those apprehensive growers out there, or maybe even a younger generation that's coming in that kind of wants to do it all
Speaker 2:Right. You know, I I've been a guy that's kind of set on the sidelines of a lot of different technologies cause I've really struggled to understand the ROI. And, and, and I really think when I look at, at what I'm looking at for inputs going into 2022, um, there's just a lot of new things now that the whole return on investment looks totally different. Um, I, I won't even begin to talk nitrogen modeling and some of that stuff. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do out there. And, and I've not done a lot in that, but really, probably being better at managing our nutrients than we ever have. And, and I don't care. What method do you wanna take? Is that starting point? I mean, I have mountains of yield data, so I, I mean, I've got an incredible starting Spotify I want to, but you know how you can just dabble in this whole space of, you know, taking some very basic imagery and looking at, you know, your overall yield potential that you have in that field. As we begin to think about, what am I gonna do in, in nutrition? I, I think the other area that a lot of people are probably not tracking is close and, and I'm kind of guilty cuz I've kind of been that guy as well for a long time, but is, is looking again at imagery to help us guide some in season decisions. I don't care whether it's gonna be an in season nitrogen application, whether it's a fungicide application. I think there's some things we can do with, you know, proper planning and looking and tying imagery with that, that we can begin to, you know, make a case of, of how maybe we don't blanket apply a fungicide or maybe we don't blanket apply a top dress nitrogen, especially when we look at, you know, what this nitrogen complex is looking like for 2022. I just really think those are some new things that we are not new. They're not new by any means, but might be new to you or new to a grower that we just really gotta look at. And you know, I'm a guy that's been, I've done a lot of pre-plant nitrogen in the past and for 2022 I'm clearly I'm, I'm gonna sidedress I, I got the equipment to sidedress if I need to, but I'm gonna take that probably a step further and, and probably look at incorporating some imagery into that and really looking and seeing, you know, some in D V I maps to see what this crop is looking like when I'm, I'm heading out for that last pass of nitrogen mm-hmm<affirmative> I think without question, you know, I got plenty of yield data this year that shows you split applied nitrogen applications are worth every penny. Now we may have had the perfect growing season to make it happen, which we did in my part of the world. Won't hide that for a minute, but still, when you look at what this nitrogen com complex is gonna look like for 2022, I mean, I, on the go sensors, you know, I'm not gonna pick a winner here. And Jared, I got one particular brand on this podcast, but I won't even go that far. I'll leave it wide open, not even pick a winner here, but you know, they're, I think some of these in season, you know, on the go sensors, we got to be thinking and evaluating that to manage that fertility dollar, the best that we can, because we've all known these fields. And that comment you made was so spot on, you know, our grandparents done it on the fly for years and never thought about it. We got the tools and technologies that we don't have to rely on our memory now. Yeah. And, you know, let those sensors tell us where we have the yield potential out there to make better yield. Yeah. Right now, at the same time, we, we got to incorporate this nitrogen cost into that. But you know, I think 22 is setting up the opportunity to combine not only imagery, but some on the go sensors to really fine tune this crop nutrition. Yeah. I, I think another area that I have probably not been as good at as what I could be is really understanding the correct planning population for my specific soils. And, and that simply takes, you know, let's be realistic if you bought a new planner within the last seven to 10 years, you mean, I, you probably have the technology on there to record the actual seeds per acre that you're planting. And in most cases probably have a hydraulic drive or electric drive of some type that you can bury that population. And, and I think we need to be exploring of, of building some maps that we do some population trials across these fields to really get better at fine tuning. What is the optimum population and where is that return on investment? Cuz I, I mean, I've processed some data from this fall. I can tell you, I just still didn't find the top population for at least growing season 2021 for the hybrids I planted on my farm this year. And
Speaker 1:I, and I think that's, and I think there's a couple key words there for the hybrids and for this year, I think, you know, I completely agree with you, especially on, on our farm. Um, the, uh, the danger word for us is, or for me is a blanket application, a flat rate, if you will. When I hear that term, to me that indicates a loss of efficiency, a loss of effectiveness and a lowered ROI. Um yep. So, you know, we're, we're working, whether that's, uh, grid information for soils, just soil classifications themselves, imagery from publicly available or even subscribe systems like, like tap or others. Um, yep. I don't think we'll make the go on, um, in field sensors only because, uh, I don't know. We, we raised primarily, uh, it sort of balances between sorghum and wheat. Those are typically one of those as the larger, um, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, granted a, an in season application and nitrogen, if I could get enough moisture to push it into the root. So, and so the plane could use it, but I, I completely agree with what you're saying. So I think for the listeners out there, if they're, um, not pushing the edge of their comfort zone and maybe on a field, or maybe it's, maybe it's one of their most productive fields, or maybe it's one of their least productive fields, exactly. Try something different is really what I, what I'm hearing you say is push yourself to use the technology for nitrogen planning, uh, to variable rate in the areas of the field that, you know, are, are more productive. Um, and then the second component I think is, is really, really powerful, which is the, the, that magical sweet spot between the hybrid. You select the soil in which you're placing it in the timing of which is important as well. And the hybrid that you've selected, there's really a magical combination there that I think once that grower flex fixed short season, longer season, and there's all these, uh, amazing, uh, variety types that are out there for growers to choose from. Um, and, and, you know, this may sound like a negative thing to the seed industry, but it isn't, I don't mean it to come out that way. Um, those folks ultimately have an inventory that they're trying to sell out of just like, uh, well, I don't, I don't want to draw a parallel to say a car salesman, but in a way it's the same thing. They have a certain number of bags of items that are in inventory. I know last year we had, uh, I think we had, pre-ordered a few varieties and then those varieties were not available. Come seating time. There was a problem in the supply chain. There's, there's that word again? So I think those, um, I, I would say those levels of readiness need to be improved across the board, no matter what crops, uh, I think sometimes people listen to these podcasts, Jeremy, they think, well, you know, if I'm not a corn soybean wheat canola, uh, you know, corn farmer, you know, maybe these podcasts don't apply to me, but of course, if you're in rice, if you're in citrus, if you're in, uh, vegetable production nuts, I'm sure, absolutely certain that these same topics, uh, are being looked at investigated and put into practice, you know, in, in those crops as well. I'm certain of it
Speaker 2:AB absolutely. I mean, different tools, different technology, but, you know, Jared, there's, there's two things you, I wanna echo back is, is I am never a guy that wants to recommend a wholesale change in your operation.<laugh> yeah. And, and then all the work I've ever done with growers is, you know, let's, let's dip our toe in the water and, and man we're
Speaker 1:And probably be cautious of somebody coming into your operation signaling to you a across the board modification, that's maybe a more risk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're exactly right. And, you know, as, as I look back over the last three years, if I had deployed every tool and every solution and every, I wouldn't even name'em, but you know, all the things that come to me that was gonna add at 5% to my yield, good Lord, Jared I'd have corn, probably making 330 to 400 bushel an acre now. Yeah. And, and so, you know, we gotta filter through it and
Speaker 1:I think the farmer terminology for that, Jeremy is still to this day. I think it's still okay to say that in farmer circles, those items and those products are sometimes referred to as snake oil. Right.
Speaker 2:<laugh>, that's pretty, that's pretty real. Yes.
Speaker 1:That's pretty real. Yes. And, and to be fair and honest for some of those specialty products, um, they absolutely do work for certain growers and certain situations and certain environments. They work unbelievably well, but for other growers and other regions, other rainfall, temperatures, uh, challenges, et cetera, they might not work. So it's probably a little unfair for me to categorize it as say, uh, snake oil, but,
Speaker 2:Well, you're the one that said it, not me jar that's, you're the one
Speaker 1:In trouble. That's true. I'll have to take the responsibility. That's fine. That's fine. So, so, you know, pushing, pushing the boundaries of, of your comfort level, um, like you said, there's more help out there today, if you're a, a grower and you're going to your equipment provider, maybe you're going to your agronomist. I would say that that lenders have, uh, a higher appetite now than they ever had for say technology to be added to a farming operation. I know, you know, in the early two thousands, if you wanted to go to, uh, to your bank and say, get, uh, you know, get a loan for a, I don't know, 30, 40,$50,000 RTK and system X, Y, and Z, they might have kind of looked at you fun.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, they probably would've
Speaker 1:<laugh> but now, you know, that's, uh, that's a common conversation that I think, you know, a lot of lending institutions, you know, it's a measurement device. It's just like, if you are operating a, a big company and you need something that's more powerful than QuickBooks, maybe you need a full on E R P system. Uh, those types of investments make sense. Now, maybe I'm opening up a can of worms here. You, you tell me, Jeremy, we've definitely got that relationship, but what about all this buzz about carbon and all these things? I mean, I, I'm not gonna make my stance on these topics really known or, or Topcon at this point, but what do you think listeners should maybe think of, or be aware of, you know, from, from your, from your opinion, your perspective
Speaker 2:On it? Well, you know, I've, I've listened to a lot of them. I've been on a lot of virtual conferences over the last 18 months and attended a few face to face. And, you know, I, I can't tell you, I don't even wanna pretend to even guess who's gonna be the winner in this whole thing, whether it's the carbon market, whether it's sustainability, whether it's renewable ag, I mean, I don't know, there's probably what, 15, at least a dozen different terms out there. And, you know, for my own farm, I've, I've looked at a number of'em and, and here again, I try never to pick winners and, and, you know, I'm not saying I know a winner. I don't, I mean, I, I guess I'm evaluating a couple to potentially dip my toe in the water and, and try a field or two. Um, there's just a lot of questions I don't have answered, but the one thing that's completely clear and obvious is, is we're gonna need a level of documentation that our industry has never made it to yet at this point. I mean, we, we have a lot of growers that are really good at, at recording planning data. They're really good at getting harvest data. They're probably fairly good, even in the whole soil sampling space. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, but mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, there's just a new level of documentation here that, that we just haven't made it to yet. And, and it's not because the technology can't, I think it's because the growers have never had a reason to, to do it. And, and at the same time we got, you know, a number of, of people who just says, well, it's too hard. Well, okay. It may be too hard, but you know what, learning a bike learning to ride a bike. Wasn't very easy either. But you know, when you were five years old, you had the determination to make it happen and yeah. And you know what
Speaker 1:Well, but every, but everybody else was riding bikes. So maybe, maybe at some point when everybody, you know, has sort of picked their, their, maybe I shouldn't even say carbon, maybe, you know, environmental stewardship, correct program. Uh, you know, and I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of unknowns, uh, obviously in order for an environmental initiative to be tracked to then be monetarily compensated back to the grower for, let's be honest, probably activities that they're already doing today and have been for years and years and years. Yep. Um, and one of the exciting things to me personally, about the, uh, environmental component of, you know, really what's bubbling up in the industry is, uh, yeah, I mean, it it'd be, I guess, nice to, to get a little extra income off of, uh, your acreage. Right. But, uh, as you, and I know with government programs, those are always typically a double edged sword. You know, they come with, uh, a bit of a bird it's just a, you know, is the burden worth the bearing of it. But, uh, I think there is still somewhat of a stigma out there in the non agricultural community that, uh, you know, not that farmers are bad or something, but they're, you know, maybe like, uh, you know, like we don't care as much, um, which is, couldn't be farther from the truth, uh, as you and I both know, coming from agricultural families, we're putting this stuff in our, so trust me, folks, we're not putting anything on these crops that we wouldn't a walk around in multiple times a season eat from eat the meat that the animals graze. I mean, it, it's important for people to, I think, to understand that, um, is it true that most of the beef gets sent to one central location? So it's more economically feasible and efficient for the supply chain, you know, to move those things ultimately into hamburgers. Well sure. But, uh, that, isn't the entire story of, of, you know, that, that T-bones life, um, that I don't know, there's something there to me. I think that as environmental stewardship gets more, uh, not notoriety prominence information, the, the transparency and traceability, um, like some of the smart cart technology that you're using from Topcon now, again, that identifies not only the grain itself, but where yep. Specifically, where is the origin of that grape. Yep. Yep. Now maybe there's a different conversation that, you know, once it all gets dumped into a hundred thousand bushel pile at the elevator, could it, could it be tracked, but at least, you know, at least you're starting to build the foundation for that data set.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And, and, you know, yeah, yes. I've been using the smart card for, I guess, a couple years now. And, and, and it really, you know, goes back to a, a deeper thing that I was trying to bring was just this whole traceability, because, you know, I've said for the last, oh, at least seven years, maybe more, you know, farmers were green before we even knew it was cool to be green. And, and, you know, I've, I've watched now we've moved to carbon and sustainability, so it's a new term, but, you know, I've just really watched 99% of the growers, you know, we've done all the right things, but we probably haven't documented it in the way we needed to, because it was hard. We didn't have that data interoperability, we needed to make it easy. Yeah. And, and I think some of the work you're doing in the smart card is taking a huge stride towards that. I mean, you know, I, I just finished over the weekend, um, on Saturday, I guess, going through about 800 and or 284 loads, you know, off of our grain cart that we logged. And, you know, just thinking about the accountability that, that brought of, you know, knowing exactly where that came from and getting that documented to where it went and where it got delivered. You know, I, I have made the steps, I need to document what happened on my side. Now we just need some, even more data interoperability and, you know, some MIS changing process. I won't, I won't hide that for a minute, but you know, we, we have the tools now to document a lot of this and, and it's getting much, much easier, but we still got to stay on this path of bringing greater data interoperability because it, it, especially if you are gonna get into either the sustainability or the carbon market is I'm probably a little bit of a unique grower. I mean, we have our own fertilizer truck, we have our own spray rig. We have, we do a lot of this stuff ourself. Um, so in my case, you know, the responsibility for the data is mine, but, you know, you get in other parts of production agriculture, you know, we may use custom application mm-hmm<affirmative> and how do we get that data back into how to have that data? And, you know, and the things that we, we don't always collect, you know, things like tillage data, you know, I, I mean, I've got a vast group of people that help us on the farm. I mean, I still have a day job. I can't be there every day. So, you know, we've got people that help us. I mean, I've got my dad, who's 70 years old and I had my uncle. We actually just lost him about 10 days ago, but, you know, and, and that's gonna be a challenge because Steve, who we lost was 73 years old when he passed away the 14th of November. But even that guy, even if he is in a piece of till equipment, I think it's only because he wanted auto steer, but he still started the display in every field. And by me poking him and prodding him just a little bit, he would enter into that monitor what he did. Yeah. Here again, I think it was just because he wanted auto steer and didn't wanna have to drive, but I don't care. Yeah. That's still a guy that when he was 70 years old, would still take that extra 30, 40 seconds when he pulled into a field to record the, the data that we needed and, and to, to help us. Yeah. He would poke a few buttons to, to get that data collected and, you know, and if I take it back to, you know, my day job, what we're doing at EF C is, you know, we're working really hard to bring in as much of that data as we can and, and get that into a single spot. So if you are a grower or you're a service provider, you don't have to go out and chase down 47,000 USB sticks or two portable hard drives, or, you know, yeah. We're all moving to the cloud, but we're not all moving to the cloud. Right. I mean, you've got a subset of this market that whether they haven't made the move to the technology that can do it, maybe they don't have a comfort level with the cloud tools, which that's okay, that's their decision. You know, we still gotta have that data interoperability. So if I do have to go get a stick, or even if I do connect to another cloud, I understand what I got when I get that data into my system. And you know, it, it's, it's about a threefold deal. I mean, you've got one, we gotta have beta better data interoperability. Number two, we have to have tools and resources that can process that data. Once we brought the interoperability and number three, you have to have every person that's gonna touch a piece of equipment on your farm, understand the value of taking that 30 to 30 seconds to a minute to log that next piece of data, or you're not gonna have what you need to meet the requirements, whether it's a sustainability tool, whether it's a carbon tool and, you know, Jared, I think there's as much education needed as there is probably new technology, because a lot of the technologies here today, yes. We lack the data and operability. That could be another hour podcast. I'll, I'll leave that alone, but there, there's probably just as much education as we need as anything of just, you know, what, and, and kinda
Speaker 1:The, how the, how and the why. Yeah,
Speaker 2:You're exactly right. And we just gotta get to the point that, you know, what that field computer that's logging the data is just as critical as to that depth gauge wheel that just fell off your planner. Would you plant a Colonel corn, if one of your depth gauge wheels fell off and you couldn't control your planner depth?
Speaker 1:Yeah,
Speaker 2:I I'm gonna say no.
Speaker 1:You know what, remember, I remember when I, you know, at a previous employer, when I would, you know, I'd go out and work with growers all the time and do installations. And trust me, I had to slap many a hand away from the steering wheel on that first auto steer pass, you know, to say, Hey, you, you're not touching that anymore. You understand? Yeah. And just had so many great memories with so many growers. And I, I remember explaining, uh, something similar to this, to a grower that had just invested, I think at the time it might have been around, uh, maybe$5,000 on, on a console mm-hmm<affirmative> specifically for auto steer and some other things, but yep. I explained to this grower, you know, the value in this and what it could do. And he quickly understood that. Uh, and I'll never forget a metaphor that he gave me. He said, and he was, his kids played a lot of ball, you know, in school, a lot of basketball, big basketball family. And he said, uh, yeah, you know, not using this thing, what he called it. And every operation would be sort of like taking the video camera. And at that, at that time, you know, video cameras, weren't like they, on the day where you could hold'em in the Palm of your hand or on your phone, it was, you know, it was like the, the cake channel five thing you put on your shoulder, you know, with the VCR deal, he said, uh, you know, it'd be like hauling the video camera to the, uh, to the school for the, for the game and forgetting to hit record. Yep. And I, I never forgot that, cuz I thought, you know what, that's a great point. It's like you, you took all the time and energy to take it and set it up and you're there. Yep. And you just didn't hit record. So therefore all that information that could potentially have been captured, wasn't just because, you know, maybe you didn't take the time to hit the button or put in a new tape and, and that's always kind of stuck with me. And I think for some of those growers that are out there listening where they may be just auto steering or just section controlling or, or maybe they are pushing the boundaries and doing some variable rate or working with their agronomist. Um, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, I, I think the point you're making about a whole new level of detail that will be required on the agricultural community for complete documentation of any time. And every time you go to that field, for any reason, it will need to be, be documented. Yep. Um, and I think more and more, you know, will come out over time. But uh,
Speaker 2:Yep. And Jared, you're probably gonna laugh at my next comment, but that's okay because I've been that technology geek forever, but I'm gonna tell you on my farm, I probably need a new trusted service provider or need a new task out of my trusted service provider. And that's being someone just helping me manage all of this data. That's gonna be required if I choose to jump into this carbon market, sustainability is, you know, I'm pretty,
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna laugh because I, I talk to multiple growers each week that are using, uh, some of the Topcon and the tap. Uh mm-hmm<affirmative> agriculture platform tap. Yep. Um, and, and distributors and dealers and, and even some folks in the ag retail space as well, cuz they're starting to utilize some of our products for, uh, you know, pulling information off remote machines for analysis. And the, the comment you just made really kind of questioning man, are, are the people that I'm surrounding myself with today. Do do I need another person? That's a specialty person just for these things. You're not alone. And asking that question. I think a lot of folks are asking that question themselves. And I think some businesses right now are even saying, Hey, maybe we need another person that focuses solely on this. Um, some grower, some of the feedback I capture, I'm not sure if you share this sentiment or not. I, I somewhat do. Um, it's sort of like the doctor and the pharmacist being combined, which isn't a good thing. There should be a division there where, uh, right. You know, somebody selling me the hybrid and somebody maybe selling me the, uh, you know, the inputs maybe should not be the individuals that help me analyze some of that information. But you know, as I say that, you know, there often some of the people that have the expertise in how some of those things should be positioned. So it's, there's a, there's a lot of, uh, of unknowns. I think the advice I've given in the past and I would share on the same podcast now would be, whatever's working for you. Keep going. If it's not working, however, don't give up and say, well, that, that ain't gonna work for me. Uh, try something different, bring somebody else in, ask a neighbor. I, I, I don't know, but don't just say, well, that won't work for me cuz it didn't work that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you know, Jared, I, I think, I mean, I've been fortunate to travel a lot of production agriculture in north America and, and I think you've got areas of at least north America that maybe that supplier, not maybe that the supplier absolutely can be that specialist to help you manage that data. You have other areas that that is absolutely not the model that they use and is not the path that they've went. So, you know, I, I think it's gonna be varied kind of, depending on where you're at. I mean, I, I have a service provider that is, is doing a great job and, and does is very much a partner in my operation and, and helping me make some of these decisions and managing this data and, and not everyone's as fortunate to have someone like I, that I work with. And so, you know, Jared, I think it's gonna be as varied as the colored church you might find, you know, at church. Yeah. Um, so I think there's gonna be all kinds of mixes, but without question, there's an opportunity for this role, whether you are an input, you know, you're an ag retailer, whether you're a precision ag hardware dealer or whether you're just an independent consultant, there's, there's just like this whole new role out here, a new job that, and I got a good friend about, I think six years ago, I shared the stage with him at a presentation. And he said, it's time that the, the farmer's gonna need a data cop that just helps direct data where it needs to go. And you know what, that statement can't be more true than what it is right now. If we look at the mountains of data and whatever tool you want to connect to, I mean, you know, tap is a, is a great solution in bringing all that stuff together, you know, from the field computer side as well. And getting that into a single spot and no different than what we're doing it, you know, in field analytics of, you know, bringing that all together. And you know, when you look at even someone like me with a mixed fleet, I mean, I do have a lot of the same precision, a hardware. So it's not as big a deal, but where I have mixed colors of equipment, I may need to have three or four connections to clouds if I want to use all the cloud tools and who is that person that helps get the right sync relationships together so that all my data ends up in the spot that I need it to be, to make the decisions that I need to make or document the things I need to document. And it just feels like it's kind of a new role that our industry's kind of had people that's, that's been in and done. I mean, that's kind of what crop IMS aspire to do and is still doing, but it it's a new level now<laugh>, I mean, it's just a totally different, it's just a totally different space we're operating in and, and it might take some, I'm not gonna say retooling, but maybe relearning.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think, I think it deserves a, a second look a sec, a second visit. I think that, uh, I, I think that one of the issues that, that our industry for certain faces is just a, a simple issue of scalability. Um, so many of our technologies that are extremely innovative and, you know, in some cases world's first technologies, um, it takes an expert to install it, set it up, calibrate it, wire it, and maybe it takes that expert visiting the machine twice a year, or at least at a minimum yearly. And then, uh, some of these systems, you know, of course a farmer has many things entering their mind on a daily basis. Um, as my father would say, you kind of have to delete some of that data or archive some of that data mm-hmm<affirmative> so next year you might get up in the machine and you think, yeah, I remember how to hit that button and that button, but I don't, I don't remember the next step. And a lot of people would say, well, you know, the farmer should, uh, open the manual or they should remember write that down. And I disagree. I think that our products are made, um, incorrectly. Yeah. Uh, a farmer would never have to, uh, well, an example I've used in the past a farmer never needs to say call, uh, direct TV, for example, on how to maybe operate a DVR, trust me, right. They know how to do that. They know how to get their, maybe their show recorded or their, uh, uh, their, you know, their ag, uh, ag am or, or whatever. Uh, mm-hmm<affirmative>, you know, that they wanna watch. Um, but that's because the product was designed to be easily, uh, installed, set up and used by directly by the, the consumer wouldn't require, you know, a full on, uh, army of folks showing up to, to do the installation. So I think, I think many of these systems, um, tap BFC, O of course, many growers are using, uh, products provided by climate or, or Bayer, uh, Corteva, uh, deer and, and others. And I think, uh, although some of those systems may compete with one another. I, I view it as, um, if a farmer today needs to subscribe to, or use multiple systems in order to accomplish some of their goals, that's perfectly acceptable. I don't think we need to operator that we should lead a farmer down the path of a mentality in which they have to choose just one, uh, you know, for example, here in my household, um, we have, uh, I think Netflix because, uh, my daughter, there's a certain show on there. I think she follows. And then we have a Disney plus because there's some show that my son, uh, follows. I think it has, uh, something to do with the star wars stuff with Disney, you know, which Disney acquired. And, and my point is, you know, initially I said, uh, to, I think it was to my wife, no, we're not, we're not gonna subscribe to every service that that's out there, but obviously my thinking has evolved on that. And, you know, one service provides, you know, one level of content for one person and another service provides for another. So I think, I think it really, that that mentality is changing in the industry and in the mind of the farmer. And it'll all shake out in the end, right? Jeremy, if a system that you're using today is providing you value and saving you time and potentially increasing your profitability, or at least your visibility of risk areas. Yep. You're gonna maintain that system. And if it is not, um, you won't, it's kinda survival of the fittest, right?
Speaker 2:Yep. And Jared, your household TV things falls right in line with where we gotta get with data interoperability. You don't need three different TV sets to watch your three different streaming services you've chose to use, right. They all display on the same TV that you all watch when you watch four or five different streaming services and, and how, you know, as an industry, that's what we have to get figured out. And it's not our responsibilities. It's the poor folks like myself. When I get into a piece of farm equipment or have a piece of desktop software that we have to deal with it. And we just gotta get through this data interoperability piece and, and get that sorted out because you hit the nail squares. I mean, especially when you look at that field computer side, this market is, is probably got growers with more mixed fleets than I've probably seen. Gosh, I don't know, in my I've been installing hardware since 95. And it, it seems like the, the fleets are more mixed now. I mean, yes, there's, there is there's exceptions to that everywhere you go. But, you know, we gotta bring that together because at the end of the day, the farmer wants to farm the service provider needs to provide service. And at the end of the day, the consumer needs to have a safe, affordable product to use for food or fiber that's, that's it. And, you know, I, you know, I probably go to bed every night and wake up every morning of thinking, you know, what can I do to help streamline these processes as for a grower, more than any other thing I think about. And that's just what it comes down to. I mean, we've been fortunate for a number of years and had a safe and affordable food and fiber network and, and we've gotta continue to maintain that. And, and technology is gonna help us be better. Um, we just, some cases gotta make it easier, some cases better training, and more importantly, we gotta get commitment by the growers and the people working on that grower's operation to use the technology to document the things so that, you know, know when we get the next question from our consumer, that we can answer their questions and it doesn't take five systems to get to that, to get the answer for'em.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Answer that question with speed and accuracy and certainty.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And don't forget, we're now dealing with a set of consumers that found the internet after Google. Yep. And that spends a big majority of their time on YouTube or other social networks. I mean,
Speaker 1:And have, and have a level of inspection that if they, uh, order a product, they know when that product leaves the warehouse and, uh, if it's traveling there and when it, when it enters the neighborhood soon to be delivered, and I think, uh, yep. In a way, many people may, uh, talk about certain negativity surrounding some of those needs, but I think there's a lot of positives, uh, that we could draw from that. And to be honest, um, those are solvable challenges and solvable problems in the agricultural space. And if agriculture, how do I put this gets a bit of an improved image or a bit of an improved name as a result of that increased transparency that is extremely positive for our industry, for the decades and centuries moving forward. Cuz I'm pretty sure that, uh, uh, there won't be an automated Jeremy Wilson taking over for you anytime soon. So
Speaker 2:Probably not too soon. No.
Speaker 1:Well, Mr. Wilson, I really, really have enjoyed our conversation today and to the top con talks, agricultural listeners. Thank you so much for jumping on and spending a few minutes with Jeremy and myself. Hopefully you've gained some, uh, some insights from our conversation and Jeremy we'll stay in touch. Maybe there's a, an, uh, a nitrogen sensor conversation, satellite imagery, uh, risk mitigation and cost touched on so many topics that we didn't dive deeper into, but maybe we'll get some feedback from some of the listeners and, uh, go down a few of those rabbit holes and explore'em further. So thank you so much, Jeremy, any final parting words for the Topcon talks, agricultural listeners that you'd like to, uh, impart?
Speaker 2:Not that I can think of and enjoyed my time with you and be happy to jump on again. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Jeremy.